Wrong notes displayed in some exotic scales?

User avatar
Posts: 1018
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:25 am

You can experiment with stuff

Postby Jesse » Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:15 pm

You can experiment with stuff like this (and the scales you mentioned above) by using the Scala format and importing them into TJ right now. Check out the manual and some other posts in the Scales section of the forum for details. There is no limitation (I think) for putting notes out of order in that format to play around with.

The split screen with different scales, keys, and *instruments* is on the way in the next version. All part of the reason it takes so long between releases.

Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:12 pm

Good. I'm looking at Scala

Postby garyinthailand » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:29 am

Good. I'm looking at Scala now. Maybe I can send you the 'big list' of Indian scales in that format.

Since you're working on split scales/split screen, I hope you're integrating it at the level of the scale select list, so we can call up a complete asymmetric (and non-linear scale) in one shot. That would be sweet.

Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:12 pm

A question about Just

Postby garyinthailand » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:58 am

A question about Just intonation:

I agree with you about using a 12-tone scale for the Indian scales, with Just Intonation. Discussions of microtones generate far more heat than light.

But what is that 12-tone scale? According to sources, including Scala, there are any number of tunings that could be described as "Just", including numerous variations of Pythagorean and so on.

Have you adopted one that we can use as a basis? Thanks

Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:12 pm

I hope somebody connects with

Postby garyinthailand » Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:46 pm

I hope somebody connects with you soon about this. I'm not sure Lucy is a good reference.

The scale names don't seem to match up with other references I've found, except for one (pianoencyclopedia.com)that I think may be taking its data from the same questionable source.

I'm studying Carnatic (South Indian) music with a teacher now. Most of the ragas I am learning are not listed in ThumbJam (Mayamalavagowla, Dheersankarabharanam).

I might think this is because the listing is from a Hindustani (North India), rather than Carnatic, system. But very common Hindustani ragas (such as Bilawal) are not listed either.

There does seem to be a problem also with the mapping of the scales to Western notation. Raga Malahari with C root is displayed as C C# D# E G G# C2. If you listen to the interval between the 1st and 4th notes, I think you'll agree that it's a perfect 4th, which agrees with other documentation of this raga.

There's some pretty good documentation online of the Carnatic system at least. The Wikipedia articles on Melakarta and Janya ragas would be an excellent place to start.

It's a bit problematic or me, as I really want to use Thumbjam in conjunction with my studies. This "wolf list" of ragas is making it difficult. If I can help, let me know.

Otherwise, totally love your work. Cheers
Gary Hall

Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:03 pm

I'm really interested in just

Postby ListTowardsLight » Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:09 am

I'm really interested in just intonation for specific projects and think Thumbjam can be a great tool for putting it together.

Check out http://www.bazantar.com and this video here: http://vimeo.com/11290879 The guy went on a quest to create a sympathetically strung upright bass that synthesized Western and Indian music theory and in the process, created this 66-note harmonic grid which I'm drawing from now: http://bazantar.com/grid.html - see attached. I'm using this as a master scale to draw subsets from using Python scripts, and write them out automatically in Scala format.

Jesse, I'm really interested in this matter of rightly labeling notes in alternate scales. For example, I have an experimental just quarter-note scale here that I'd like to label properly. It's attached in Scala format, but might you have a solution squirreled away in Thumbjam's SXML format I see mentioned online? :)ImageImage

User avatar
Posts: 1018
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:25 am

Right now there is no way to

Postby Jesse » Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:35 am

Right now there is no way to custom label the notes in a scale. Are there any generic conventions that you suggest for producing such labels for alternate scales?

Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:03 pm

Alternate scales are a very

Postby ListTowardsLight » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:26 am

Alternate scales are a very diverse world. Do you want Indian scales? Arabic and Turkish? Persian setar? While you could cover some exotic western scales by saying that C# is a quarter-tone up from C and Db is a quarter tone down from D, you'll still get people piping up about "Sa Re Ga". Sure you don't want to just spiffy up SXML to allow labeling?

Next up, how to have non-standard keys for a 432Hz A or 528Hz C. ;)

Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:30 pm

I used this website for scale

Postby brunogarza1021 » Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:07 pm

I used this website for scale references.
http://www.dolmetsch.com/pianochords.htm
and it has Indian Scales as well.


Previous

Return to Scales

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest